SAA really needs a solution that tracks Movement, HR, HRV, SpO2 That isn't $500-$1000

[Carverofchoice]

First let me preface this by saying that I’m a long time lover and fan of Sleep As Android, and Urban Droid in general. SAA is one of my non-negotiable MUSTS, and I tell everyone why. I love it. It’s changed my life for the better. It’s FANTASTIC. The best sleep app out there, no question.

I do have to admit though that I have been insanely frustrated sometimes. I’ve used several different ways to track my sleep, including using the phone with the accelerometer, the microphone, using smart bands, smart watches, I even bought a sleepon Go2Sleep ring, and I bought a few Sleep Phasers.

But I have to admit I’m insanely frustrated how difficult it is to get ANY way to have SAA track all of the following metrics at the same time:
Movement, HR, HRV, SpO2 (and potentially breathing rate that the phaser tracks).

I can get some with a watch or multiple wearables, but not all of them unless I want to buy something like a $1,000 premium Garmin Watch, which is insane. There aren’t even any smart rings that can do all of that. Even the Go2Sleep ring, which I have, won’t integrate with Movement even though it has a movement tracker in it.

I can’t use ANYTHING together with the phaser, which makes me really frustrated. I may not have bought it if I knew I couldn’t use a watch or ring or anything else at the same time. Urbandroid should really make that a priority IMO.

It’s just so insanely frustrating. I wish there were some kind of affordable (less than a couple/few hundred dollars) option to track almost all of those key metrics, or allow multiple affordable options to work together to get them all.

Does anyone have any suggestions that aren’t giving in to a $500-$1,000 Garmin financial monstrosity?

Will there ever be a smart ring supported that will do accelerometer (movement), HR, HRV, AND SpO2? Will the phaser even be allowed to work together with another wearable like the Go2Sleep ring? It would be so amazing if there any solution in the future that would be sub $400, preferably sub $200. Though I might be willing to pay for a good smart ring in the $500 range if it also included NFC along with all of the above.

Anyway, I really do love SAA. It seriously makes a HUGE positive impact in my life. I just thought it needed to be said how much this has been driving me crazy for a long time wishing it had just a tiny improvement. If anyone ever has a good suggestion, I’m very open to it.

[petr-urbandroid]

Hello @Carverofchoice, many thanks for your feedback, very much appreciated!

I understand your frustration. In fact I’m sharing it :(. It is very difficult to find vendors in general who share the sensors for 3rd party devs and it is ultra difficult to find those who share the SPO2 sensor or RR intervals.

For instance vendors like Garmin require an several thousand dollars investment every year or commitment to purchase hundreds of devices to give access to some APIs.

In fact I’m currently tracking all of them: HR, HRV, SPO2, but it is only possible with few devices at the moment. Mine is TicWatch 5 Pro and I have shared an article on how good this device is in general:

We finally have a new king of smart watch! - Sleep as Android

I currently see a sale on the device for $289 at TicWatch Pro 5 - Powerful, inside and out.
I think I got mine for a similar price. I’m not associated with Mobvoi in any way :), I’m only a wearable enthusiast desperately looking for some good device I could use myself…

What may be interesting are the Polar devices, I will be looking into supporting some of the new devices now… see Heart Rate Variability tracking with Sleep As Android - Sleep as Android But I do not think they support SPO2 through their API… only HR and HRV…

I have tested other Wear OS devices e.g. Pixel Watch, Galaxy Watch, Xiaomi Watch 2 etc… but unfortunately most of them do not even share the SPO2 sensor with 3rd party devs and if they do like in case of Xiaomi, it does not provide usable data…

But we are always at search for new wearable devices. ideally we would like to support HR, HRV and SPO2 on as much devices as possible and ideally at low price, but there aren’t many out there at the moment :(…

Did that help?

Many thanks and lots of greetings!

Petr

[Carverofchoice]

Thank you @petr-urbandroid for your thoughtful and detailed reply, it was well-received and very much appreciated. I’m a big fan and have several of your apps. You’re amazing. Thank you for some of that insight and explanation.

The article you wrote about why the Ticwatch Pro 5 is the new king is a great explanation. I think I am highly likely to get a TicWatch Pro 5 now. I found one on Amazon that I am highly considering right now for a respectable $239.99 USD

https://www.amazon.com/Ticwatch-Android-Smartwatch-Snapdragon-Platform/dp/B0CD1QBN8V

Honestly, I didn’t realize the TicWatch Pro 5 was an option because it wasn’t listed on your supported wearable list here:

Supported wearables - list

It might be good to update that supported device list because it is extremely encouraging information to see you have something cheaper that will do all them! I looked at the Ticwatch Pro 3 on that list, but was frustrated that it said I had to pick between HRV vs SpO2 (I know that’s not your fault).

It sounds like you are confirming that the TicWatch 5 Pro is different from the Pro 3 and that it can do ALL FOUR of these simultaneously now:

↝ = Movement detected from the wearables’ accelerometer
= Heart rate (HR)
= Heart rate variability (HRV)
◌ = Blood oxygen saturation (SpO2)

@petr-urbandroid

In fact I’m currently tracking all of them: HR, HRV, SPO2

You didn’t absolutely confirm that you’re also tracking Movement with the watch, so I’d like that explicitly clarification before I buy it if you’re willing to confirm that, just to be sure.

I also enjoyed understanding how the HRV is helpful. I did not realize all of that. I am now convinced I want HRV tracking. I saw some watches make us pick between either HRV and SpO2, and I was leaning toward SpO2 as a priority (since sometimes my SpO2 drops to the 70s), but now that I understand HRV from your article, it is clearly an awesome metric.

I still look forward to the day that MAYBE some device manufacturer of a smaller fitness band (instead of a bulky watch) or small smart ring will give you full access to their API so we have a minimal (and affordable) wearable that does ALL the sensor metrics great, but for now, it looks like the Ticwatch Pro 5 is the current King as you said.

Please make an announcement if you ever find a smart ring that gives you API access to ALL 4 of those things (especially if it also has NFC capabilities). I’m HIGHLY interested in getting one, but right now they’re ALL on my list for not giving you open API access to their sensors so you can integrate them with SAA, which is non-negotiable for me.

Oh, and please add the Ticwatch Pro 5 to your Wearables list! I didn’t realize it was such a great option, so I’m extremely glad you replied to me.

Thanks again for all you do. I remain a big fan and often tell people about how your app is better than all other sleep apps and it’s not even a close contest. Your app is actually 1 major reason I will never switch to iOS.

[Trin]

Hello!

I would suggest a Polar Verity Sense and an O2 ring. O2 Ring will detect HR, movement and Oxygen, whereas the Polar band will detect HR and HRV.

A Polar H10 works too, I find the sense more comfortable overnight. I saw HR accuracy comparisons and while the H10 is the best, the Verity Sense is pretty close.

As you mentioned Garmin, I don’t rate their sleep tracking highly at all. There are also studies that put its spO2 readings into question. I can’t find the one I was reading yesterday, but here is another:

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/351779165_Accuracy_and_Reliability_of_Pulse_O2_Saturation_Measured_by_a_Wrist-worn_Oximeter#:~:text=These%20findings%20suggest%20that%20wearable,<0.001)%20(52)%20.

Keep in mind that I haven’t used a Garmin in a while, so their sleep tracking might have improved. I do trust Garmin’s HR readings more though.

[petr-urbandroid]

Hello @Trin many thanks for sharing your thoughts on the Polar and O2 Ring devices. I did not test the O2 Ring integration yet and it is 3rd party so I cannot make any guarantees on my end, but great to hear it working well for you. If you confirm that, I may put it higher on the list in Wearable section as this looks like an interesting alternative.

I also plan to integrate at the new Polar devices in near future.

@Carverofchoice … big thanks for the further update. I ased @lenka-urbandroid to update the supported device section with info about TicWatch 5 Pro, many thanks for pointing this out! For me this is the best smartwatch after Pebble and it deserves more promotion form our end… And YES I’m tracking everything with a single device: movement, HR, HRV, SPO2…

In my opinion the HRV works as a good objective quality measure for your sleep. So agree it is worth tracking.

Ad smaller fitness band… that would be great… in fact we cooperate with Zdenek@Tools&MiBand and Matteo@Notify&Finess to integrate Mi Bands and other Xiaomi, Amazfit or Zepp devices. We spend ~1 week trying to integrate their SPO2 but failed. They provide raw data from the sensor leds, but we were not possible to get to any consistent SPO2 value based on this input. This is probbaly a similar case for the new Wear OS based Xiaomi watch which also some critic data on the SPO2 sensor, I assumed this is probbaly raw led data and tried to find a formula for SPO2 caluclation but I failed again.

[Mark_Weiss]

Hi… I THINK I did this once… I’ll try tonight and confirm…

I wear a Polar H10 almost 24/7 365. One night I put on my Berry Med 2000A and paired it along with the H10 and they both recorded… I could be wrong. I have a TW Pro5 and I manage to sleep on my arm a bunch and then sensors think I’m dying :).

EDIT: I have my Polar H10 Paired up and I put on my Berry Med 2000A I got from Berry Med not Happy Electronics. I selected Pulse Oximiter ( BlueTooth ) and My Berry Med Device was selected. I then started sleep tracking while I was browsing the web and I got SPO2, HRV, HR and an Actigraph which I assume is from the H10 Accelerometer. So… It is possible without an expensive watch. I also confirmed with a night of sleep just now.

As of 7/10/24
Happy Electronics Alert StressLocator Oximeter - BM2000B Currently $103.00
Berry BLE BM2000D Ebay $65.00 ( Without Custom Firmware )

Also be certain to get the Velcro Fingertip Sensor instead of the “DuckBill” one that is comes with it.

Polar H10 ( Amazon ) ~$85.00

Mark

[Carverofchoice]

@Trin & @Mark_Weiss You guys have such great reasonably priced suggestions too! I appreciate it so much! I am considering these options for my wife now. Thank you for taking the time to share.

Any others are still welcome to post suggestions. I’m really glad I asked and I will refer others to this thread in the future when discussing options to get all measurements (it’s surprising how often I tell family and friends about this being one of my all time favorite apps).